By Ken Christie

Scotland will be the first part of the UK to ban smoking in all enclosed public places from 0600 GMT on 26 March, 2006 as the Smoking, Health and Social Care (Scotland) Act 2005 comes into force.

The smoke-free guidance, covered on clearingtheairscotland.com, includes advice on checks, penalties and employer responsibilities. The aim of the guide is to make sure every business and public place classed as no smoking under the new law is ready when the ban comes into effect.'

Health Minister Andy Kerr said he hoped the law would be self-enforcing.

So there we have it an outright ban on smoking in public places from March 26th. How about mountain bothies and cllimbing huts - should they be subject to these same rules? Who would enforce this?

In reading the act I'm not sure whether these bothies fall under Appendix B.8/11 and are therefore included or whether they fall under appendix C.1 and are exempt.

Any thoughts?

 YOUR COMMENTS 

Richard Spencer:
Looking at the Act, I'd think that a bothy comes under s4(4)a and c, and a club hut under s4(4)c, but the devil lies in the detail! Are the Regulations out yet? I don't think that the latest MBA newsletter indicates whether there has been any representation to the Scottish Executive seeking a tiny touch of common sense, or not!

Kevin:
It is my opinion that smoking should be banned in all huts and surrounding areas and people who wish to smoke should be made to stand by the side of the road particularly when it is raining. Smoking is an unpleasant habit and smells nasty let's make them suffer as well is paying huge taxes.

Helen:
Like Stewart, never known anyone to smoke inside huts or bothies. I am sure if it has happened and people complain it is refrained from. > So, should we waste time debating something that isn't happening.

Robert McKay:
If I'm in an otherwise empty bothy, I'll be having a fag. End of story, *who* is going to stop me?

philip campbell:
smoking has been around with the fist cave men/women look you cant change people over night about it, There are going to be a lot of people fined becouse of these new laws and I beleave we are only making people more harder a smoker. A docter will say to his/her patient please stop smoking becouse they know it is for the best all round but he/she knows that somtimes becouse of those words it can kill the patient so whos right to say when we stop smoking, For the peolpe that try to stop smocking its going to be hell not just for them but for there family and for some familys smoking is all they have.I dont smoke but have seen the terrible effects on people who have tried or stopped smoking and seen some familys going up in smoke becouse of the attempt at stopping. SMOKING it can kill even if you stop if we take away peoples right to smoke then I fear we are going to push them into somthing more horrible YES I want to see more halthier happier people but is this the way to go about it.

Anon:
I have stopped smoking and it has been shear hell for two weeks however i dont think it is the governments right to go big brother on all smokers and force them to stop, afterall they have made a fortune from every pack of fags sold

'Damp Peat':
"(1) In this Part, "smoke" means smoke tobacco, any substance or mixture which includes it or any other substance or mixture; and a person is to be taken as smoking if the person is holding or otherwise in possession or control of lit tobacco, of any lit substance or mixture which includes tobacco or of any other lit substance or mixture which is in a form or in a receptacle in which it can be smoked."

That could include an open fire...

Nigel Pexton:
The new legislation is not about the right to smoke. It's about the right to inflict your smoking on others. Smoking causes a huge list of illnesses, many of which can put a stop to walking and climbing; chronic bronchitis, cancer, heart attacks, artery narrowing which leads to leg pain and even amputation etc etc. It is increasingly clear that passive smoking also causes smoking related diseases. I want to live as long as I can and enjoy the mountains for as long as I can, so my decision is not to smoke, and that includes the passive smoking of other people's cigarettes. If you choose to smoke when you're alone or with other smokers then that's your choice and I'm OK with that - I agree with Robert McKay, if you're alone in a bothy it's your decision. But if you're not, the new law applies, because I don't want that increased risk of death or disease passed on to me.

'Barbie' says:
think it"s ridiculious!!!! wont be able to go to the toilet next without having to tell the government! william wallace fought for nothing! FREEdom i think not! what about smokers who have friends who visit which doesnt smoke, they are getting passive smoke, so what next, not allowed to have friends!!!

Sam says:
i don't feel that anyone has the right to tell someone to stop smoking. i smoke myself and would smoke in a bothy providing no-one really objeted. but i feel that Kevin is way off the point and this argument is not about making people suffer just because they smoke. The one thing i greatly object to is fag butts left on the hillside and in bothy's. there is no need for this, and people should put them in there pockets and take them off with them. Imagine if just 50 people a week dropped one fag butt each in an area of mountains? They would soon start building up!

David McGuire:
Sams attitude is typical of a smoker when he says "I would smoke in a bothy if no-one really objected." Most bothiers are sociable people and would not want to create an atmosphere by objecting to his filthy habit. But, have no doubt, he imposes on non smokers every time he lights up for his selfish pleasure. He has the option not to smoke, an option which is removed from everyone when he decides to smoke in a confined space.

Anthony:
One of the reasons I retreat to the hills is for the fresh air, the nice surroundings and the wildlife. With people smoking in these huts or bothy's its leaving an unpleasant smell, polluting the atmosphere and scaring the landscape with fag ends. Why should I have to suffer people being irnorant of others? Passive smoking is more harmful than smoking itself, why should my body be cancer ridden through no choice of my own? Smoking should be done in your own house, in an air tight box and where no-one else will be affected by it.

Stephanie Grant-Jameson:
The bothy's should provide a no smoking atmosphere for the benefit of all who use them. Any smoker using the bothy should be aware that most non smokers have a real preference to be in a smoke free environment for obvious reasons. Thus smokers should smoke outside of the bothy and ensure that their cigarette butts are disposed of properly.

'smoke stack lightning':
Ah, the anti-smoking brigade are out in full force! In recent years I have very rarely seen folk smoking in huts, but bothies are a different matter all together. It almost seems to me that it is obligatory to smoke in bothies. Bothies have always seemed (to me) to have a real sociable atmosphere where folk stay the night have a natter and a drink before going back up the hill the next day. Of course there are some bothies which are close to popular munros and are predominantly used by the "orange juice drinking, go to bed at 9 o'clock crew" and are sometimes devoid of atmosphere. Is smoking part of the atmosphere and culture which is part of bothying...I dunno, I mean pubs used to be almost centred around smoking as much as drinking and it has been banned there. All I know is that I will be lighting up in bothies, as long as no one objects, and I will ask all there if they have a problem with it. If anyone objects I'll go outside , no problem. But bear in mind folk bleat on about it being a dirty habit, but let's face it bothies are pretty dirty, rough places and when was the last time that you got home from a bothy trip and you weren't stinking from smoke from the leaking lum?

Iain:
Even smokers normally prefer a smoke-free environment. A cousin of mine has been visiting my home recently. I asked him to smoke outside, which he does, but somehow the smell gets into the house anyway every time he lights up, which is often. I'm constantly picking up fag ends from the garden where he deposits them. This seems fairly typical. Most smokers seem to have little consideration for themselves or other people, they always feel hard done by. As addicts they will not behave rationally. Therefore trusting to individual judgement and consideration won't work. A clear ban is needed, backed up by sanctions. It seems tough but that is where we are at. Lets help them kick the habit.

Niall:
Well, i think that apart from peoples manners that anyone who wishes will be smoking in bothies. How can you possibly police these shelters. Lets be honest, if you want a good nights sleep and peace & quiet bothies arent the place to find it. Im pretty sure that the 25kg of coal we burn on our trips creates more health hazards than a couple of fags. And by my point of view i dont drive & find car exhaust fumes nauxious especially at traffic lights when cycling my bike everywhere. Think of that before you complain about the smell of cigatette smoke.

Frank Wood:
Smoke outside and dispose of your rubbish responsibly. We are not children!! And we all love the mountains?????

An anonymous comment:
I understand that the NTS have already had to take action to enforce the No-Smoking legislation at Bob Scott's Bothy in response to a complaint made to the NTS office and to the local Environmental Health Department who subsequently contacted the NTS. It may be worth clarifying it with the Estate but it seems that bothys and huts are covered by the ban.

Hugh Spencer:
I'm a big smoker but would always go outside...except I will smoke in a bothy if I'm the only occupant.

I agree about fag ends. There wanton discarding should be punishable by death. I just twiddle out the end and the baccy left and put the butt into my pocket or a tin I carry for this purpose. It is an embarrassment that smokers litter the hills and anywhere else with their butts .

Creighton Ward:
I enjoy the mountains and the countryside. I hate smokey pubs/environments. I know it's unhealthy, I am cuttng down. In the meantime, I now roll my own, so no horrible 'butts' to litter the countryside. Just biodegradeable soggy paper ends and a few strands of baccy that break down quickly into the earth.
Smoking in bothy's - no problem with that, so long as its not 'busy' with chain smokers!

El:
I agree with the smoking ban. I do not agree with the extent of it. Bus stops! Open air train platforms (after a 7 hour journey on a smoke free train)? They missed out park benches.

The notion that passive smoking causes a significant risk to health is not scientific fact. It is a pathological notion backed up by junk science http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_science and a strong anti-smoking prejudice. Quote: The effects of other people smoking in my presence is so small it doesn't worry me.' Professor Sir Richard Doll, BBC Radio 4, February 2001 (this is the chap that first discovered (in 1951!) that smoking was bad for you).

Perhaps we should be more worried about the long term health effects of the chemical cocktails in our cleaning fluids or car pollution.

How many of you on this list own or drive a car?

Recently BBC Scotland ran an article on an air quality survey carried out by the Scottish Environment Protection Agency which highlighted the Forth Valley as the most polluted area in Scotland. The survey also found that that traffic fumes in towns and cities continued to breach health levels, and more than 8,000 hospital admissions thought to be due to nitrogen dioxide from exhaust fumes in the UK in 1996 (the last year for which figures were available). For people with lung diseases like asthma and emphysema exposure can lead ultimately to a premature death.

So are the government dealing with this problem in the same draconian way they have dealt with smoking? The majority drive cars so that would be political suicide whereas it's perfectly acceptable to make scapecoats of the smoking minority (so who produces the most pollution?). Building new roads and increasing road tax on cars is a far more sensible course of action. Oh, and also bringing in the Transport (Scotland) Bill which gives local authorities powers to introduce charges for entering polluted and congested city centres.

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, so how many of you will be willing to give up your filthy habit of driving your car?

Laura Scott - Dirleton Outdoor Group:
I smoke but always go outside as the majority of our group doesn't smoke. On a recent visit to Steal Bothy I could be seen picking up the fag ends before I went home as I appreciate my surroundings and wish others to be able to do the same.

Stuart:
In my opinion, smokers don't have the right to impose their habit on others, whether you accept the medical evidence (certainly not all "junk") that passive smoking is a real health risk it can't be denied that the smoke makes people uncomfortable (coughing, watering eyes etc). If its an empty bothy or all smokers, fine I've no problems with that, likewise if someone asks and there are no objections from non-smokers. I don't like the legal route imposing bans etc in bothies and like shelters, it should be a simple matter of courtesy and respect, laws and regulations somehow feel out of place here. Smoke from fires etc, is different as it is a by product of producing heat which is often v.neccesary. Fag ends outside bothies, by paths, on belays/routes etc do hack me off more than the actual smoking though

Martin Howard:
Smokers - please don't be selfish. Tobacco smoke leaves a smell that a lot of people find unpleasant. It clings to clothes, furnishings, walls and ceilings. A regular smoker won't notice this but a non-smoker will. (I guess it's a bit like not being able to smell one's own body odour). The new Act means that I no longer wake up with a headache and a pile of smelly clothes after a night in the pub and I'd like to think that I wouldn't have to sleep with the smell of stale smoke in a bothy either.

Please respect other people's comfort and smoke outside. For me it's not a health issue. It's just a case of good manners.

Royster:
It's all about respect, if you respect your fellow mountain goer, then you wouldn't dream of smoking and forceing him to inhale something he didn't want to, I like a drink, the bi-product is pee, would smokers like to endure the bi-product of the people who have had a wee drink, bet you wouldn't like to wake up with the smell of pee in your hair, would you, no danger, reduce pollution, reduce fire risk, remember you have to leave the comfort of the living quarters to have a pee....

Neill:
Fundamentalist non-smokers, whatever next? petol bombing smokers in the street? ashtray suicide bombers?