By the MCofS Huts Working Group (HWG)

The Balmoral estate has offered the MCofS the opportunity to lease a property at the foot of Lochnagar, about 1 km from the car park at Spittal of Glenmuick. The building is the Allt-na-giubhsaich stable at grid ref. NO 299858. For a detailed map of the area go to www.streetmap.co.uk.

The present intention is to convert the stable (pictured left) for use as a 'national' mountaineering hut, i.e. it would be managed by the MCofS along the lines of Mill Cottage and the huts jointly managed by the BMC and MCofS on Skye and at Onich The building has been surveyed and is basically sound.

Some dissenting opinions have already been expressed and these, together with counter-arguments, are summarised in the table

Comments	Against	For
1. Existing accommodation in the Lochnagar area	There is already mountaineering accommodation in the Lochnagar area, including a property adjacent to the stable and a bothy at Glass-allt-shiel.	The property adjacent to the stable is limited exclusively to staff and students of Aberdeen University. The unlocked bothy at Glass-allt-shiel, which is maintained by Dundee University Rucksack Club, has on occasion been badly vandalised and out of use – and it can't be pre-booked.
2. Accessibility by vehicle	You can't drive to the front door. The 1 km walk-in would discourage potential users, especially in winter. Also, the main road up Glenmuick may be blocked in winter after snow.	What's wrong with a long or long-ish walk in? Think of Coruisk and the Ling hut. Are people mountaineers or motor-tourists? If the Glenmuick road was blocked then the snow gates on e.g. the A93 and A939 would also probably be closed, so people wouldn't get that far. And they can always 'phone the AA before they set off, of course.
3. Location	It isn't central as a base for accessing the S Cairngorms in the way that, for example, Muir Cottage at Linn of Dee is.	It's a base from which to access some of Scotland's best mountain terrain. Lochnagar is one of the jewels in the Scottish mountaineering crown in its own right.
4. Interest	The hut would be of limited interest to hillwalkers as once they had ticked off all the nearby hills they probably wouldn't return.	Of limited interest to blinkered list-tickers, perhaps, but people who really love the hills return to locations time and time again. There are plenty of Munros and Corbetts in the area for the walkers as well as fine rock and snow & ice routes for the technical climbers. And we mustn't forget our brethren S of the border.

To progress this proposal will require a considerable amount of time and effort by HWG, both as regards fundraising and project management. In the light of comments already received, before proceeding any further with the project HWG would like to hear the opinions of as many MCofS clubs and individual members as possible. If there is no perceived support from the mountaineering community then we shall have to reconsider the proposal. At the last AGM the MCofS was criticised for being too remote and of not consulting the membership, so this is an opportunity for you to participate in making an important decision about a potentially valuable resource for all mountaineers, both north and south of the border. Please send us your comments.

And Derry Lodge?
There is also a proposal by another organisation to reinstate part of Derry Lodge on the Mar Lodge Estate (GR NO 041935) to its former use as a mountain hut. The same criticisms levelled at Allt-na-giubhsaich as regards accessibility could also be applied to this proposal, i.e. it's a l__o__n__g walk in and in winter it might be snowed in. Again, your opinions will be very welcome and will be passed on to the appropriate people.

Update:
A Mar Lodge Estate public meeting was in held on 7 September '05 in Braemar at which the future of Derry Lodge was discussed. The broad community consensus was for the use of the building as a mountain lodge/hut run on similar lines to an Alpine hut.

Club Huts pages

 YOUR COMMENTS 

Peter Clinch writes:
Regarding the proposed hut ay Lochnagar, the "For" point that the bothy at G-A-S can't be booked should probably be expanded: it's an open bothy, and though not MBA it should be subject to the Bothy Code which means that groups crowding it out /should/ be a no-no.

For accessibility by vehicle, the nay-sayers have further to go to get to G-A-S than the new hut, and in any case a bike is a "vehicle" and either location is quick work with one as there are good tracks to each. Get a trailer for your bike and you can haul an expedition rucksack full of kit to the proposed hut in minutes.

As for the "limited interest", I don't really see how that wouldn't apply to, say, Mill Cottage either, to clients who are basically Sad Baggers with a terminal case of Munroitis. I've been visiting G-A-S ever since it was being renovated, have ticked all the local peaks, and still love and return to the area. And don't forget the skiers in the list of interested parties, with amazing touring all around the area (assuming there's enough snow!).

Build it, and we (Tayside Nordic) will come!

Keith Mathieson is supportive too:
I think its an excellent idea and I'm sure it will be well used. The bothy at Glass-allt-sheil is just that - a bothy and while suits a lot of people (myself included) a mountain hut is more suitable for organised groups. Go for it. I cant believe that someone actually complained about a 1km walk-in.

David Fraser agrees too:
This would be a fantastic place for a new hut. Given the distance from Ballater, some accommodation in this amazing area would be greatly appreciated by many I am sure.

Lesley Armstrong:
The proposed Lochnagar hut sounds great. I would be all for it and what's a km for goodness sake. put me down as a "yes".

David Buchanan:
I am in favour of both proposals although I probably would not make particularly frequent use of either.

Alison Coull:
my view is that this is a great location for a hut either summer or winter in an area where there is no similar accommodation. It is also nice to go to a hut slightly off the beaten track As a club that books huts, I think it is the sort of place we would be likely to go to say once every 3 years, given the numerous other hut./bunkhouse options. There is no less choice than other areas like Glen Doll (there is loch nagar and the dubh loch munros) and plenty of things to do in glenshee on the way home. A 1km walk in is hardly a problem. I don't know how often the road is impassable but would have thought it is no less often than the ski road.

Richard Weller
Allt-na-giubhsaich is excellently located for Lochnagar/Dubh Loch and would benefit anyone except climbers in Aberdeen/Inverness are who are close enough not to need accomodation in the area. This would be a real boon to the mountaineering community.

Stuart Buchanan asks:
A couple of questions:

Have we approached Aberdeen University about sharing their hut? Having four huts (if you include the bothy on the other side of Lochnagar and the one half way along Loch Muick) effectively for the same winter location does seem slightly excessive.

Are we thinking of getting these huts simply because the opportunity has been offered, or were we actively looking to increase our property portfolio?

Are our finances going to be able to cope when inevitably we hit some fire regulations requiring substantial changes (like Jock Spot's) ?

While it is true that a hut at Loch Muick provides fairly good access, it isn't going to be much use to people wanting to go to the Dubh Loch - they will almost certainly still walk in and camp. If part of the aim is to reduce wild-camping, I'm not sure it will help much.

Apart from Aberdonians (who will probably just go for the day) how often are people climbing on Lochnagar in the summer? Personaly, if I'm going that far, I've always gone to the Dubh Loch, and would camp rather than stay in a hut so far from the crag.

Reinstating Derry Lodge would be good, especially after Bob Scott's burnt down (again).

Hugh Spencer writes:
After some thought I cannot really see any objection to this. There is no Club Hut in the Lochnagar area and it would probably be popular with clubs looking for a Meet with climbing and walking potential. The lack of car access might be a dissuader but I doubt it..its just a short hop on a good surface...and you can't get a car to the Ling nor Lagangarbh . The Muick road is seldom blocked these days . It would also preserve the building.

Scott Valentine:
I tend to agree with most of the "fors" re. the proposed Lochnagar hut. I am baffled that folk are complaining about the difficulties of access. Surely anyone wishing to use the hut would be from the outdoor/mountaineering fraternity and would only see walk-ins or bad weather as a challenge and not a hindrance.

As for the Derry Lodge proposal. Is it for a mountaineering hut in the usual form? i.e. leased and run by a mountaineering club and available for hire to MCofS members. If so, I think it could be appropriate that the lodge is put to some use and reopened as a hut. Was it the Cairngorm Club that in the past had Derry Lodge as a hut? Is it the same club that are proposing re-opening the lodge

Dennis Smith:
Ultimately it will no doubt be decided by practical questions of finance and predicted usage. But it's a great area and the idea is certainly worth pursuing till we find out if the practicalities stack up.

Niall Ewen:
I think a hut for organised groups is an excellent idea for the area. The bothy at Glass-allt-shiel is not a realistic long term base and is only designed as a weekend base & short stay location though it is well maintained by the Dundee club & as i understand it a few dedicated members of the cairngorm bothy network. As for a KM walk in how can you complain. If you cant manage that how are you going to get up the hill!!!!!!! As for the proposal for Derry Lodge what a bad idea. It is already a very busy area with possibly the best bothy in the Whole of Scotland just having opened its doors in the area we do not need any farther intrusion into the area. Yes Scotts bothy MK 111 is now rebuilt and open for business. Plus its in terrible order and last i heard was Aberdeen city council looked years at doing it up as an outdoor centre and its estimated costs at the time were 2 Million pounds. What would it cost now. Also the Cairngorm club who put the extension on back in the 60's gave it up due to the costs of upkeep & repair. Lets see money put into something more constructive. Stay at Muir cottage & take a mountain bike!!!!!!

Guy Shirkie:
A new hut at Lochnagar would certainly be welcomed by me, especially if it is going to be on a par with Mill Cottage etc. Being a kilometre from the road should deter the university clubs from using it as a party venue but won't put off anyone who has stayed in the CIC hut in the winter! The financial implications need to be ascertained as I don't think the creation of a new hut should be allowed to jeopardise some other area of the MCofS' work.

Hugh Spencer:
On Derry Lodge - not a good idea. Very awkward to 'police' its useage. Cairngorm Club were plagued by unofficial users, including myself , even with Bob Scott, who lived a half mile away, keping an eye on it. And it is far too big for nowadays - keeping the occupancy levels economic would be a problem without car access given the 2.5 mile walk-in. I think the Lodge should be demolished : its an eyesore...or rebuilt somewhere else using the stones given its listed status.

Robert McMurray:
Allt-na-G - Yes
Derry Lodge - No

I think the Allt-na-G is a great idea. There is no club hut accomodation in the area, it's near the road and set in a fantastic place. But perhaps we should take into account the increased risk of erosion on Conachcraig!!

Derry Lodge in another issue entirely. It's set in an already busy, abused and overused wilderness area which could do without further intrusion. It's a real shame to see a building like that go into disrepair but we live in different times and the cost implication has to be the deciding factor.

Barry Middleton:
Not sure the location merits another hut. Best having them in more remote, hard to get to places.

Mike Dunn
Where is Derry Lodge a l-o-o-ong walk in from? Hut at Loch Muick a good idea.

From Gordon:
No - there is already sufficient accomodation in the area - B+B's, bunk houses and bothies. Should the MCof S be setting up a 'semi commercial' venue which is partial subsidised by its members and compete against the locals who provide accomodation without any subsidies.

Usage - the hut lies right at the start of the Lochnagar walk.My concern is security of the place and also the contents. Policing the entrants to the hut will be difficult especially if there are multiple groups using the hut. Non residents might be encouraged to stop by to 'use the facilities'.

We have already lost bothies in the north east because of fire damage, parties and change of access policy by the estates.

The road - it still does get blocked - all be it less frequently than before. The roads dept does not plough th eroad reqularly. I would be interested in the McofS's response to the situation when people staying int he hut cannot get in or out because the raod is blocked - it is no good the mcof s saying use is at your own responsibility.

Bikes - what a conflict of environmental concerns - we have the mcof s effectively promoting access to the cairngorms thro' the use of bikes and yet at the same time the Mar lodge estate ripping out landrover and bike tracks to return access to the walk in principle.

I am OPPOSED to either development of these proposed huts particularly that on Lochnagar. Most people who visit are there for the day not longer.

Ben Couch:
All for huts great idea.

Dave:
As a a non member just passing through I just want to comment on the the negative comments re the GAS Bothy made by various folk in this discussion . Many of us used GAS during our time as refugees from Bob Scotts and its a great bothy, not that busy and well maintained as Niall states. Its a long time since it was vandalised and the comments presented at the top of the page seem to suggest its a regular event - not so. Also the comment re Bob Scotts burning down again seem a wee bit confused, yes two bothies on sites approx a mile apart sharing the same name have been burnt down during the past 20 years and the circumstances surrounding the fires were very different, so lets not try and pretend thats an every day occurence either. I think the comments re Derry Lodge might be a little bit premature as the discussion document re Mar Lodge's management plan is still out for comment.

Simon:
Regarding the 'Interest' points. I'm not Scottish, don't live in Scotland, and am not a member of the MCoS. But I am chair of an English mountaineering club, and we'd most certainly be very interested in using both huts. Neither has *that* long a walk in, certainly compared with Glen Lichd and Glen Affric (both of which we've used this year, and in the case of Glen Lichd, almost filled).

Mark Atkins
I agree with StuartB, and also the first part of the title to this piece- A Hut too far. I live in Aberdeenshire and know Lochnagar and its environs well. I enjoy winter climbing in the corrie. I feel that there is more than enough human "traffic" in this area already from climbers and walkers. This proposed hut is about 200 yds from the Aberdeen Univ one, common sense should say that a second hut so close by is daft ! I'm surprised the Royal Estate is even suggesting this. I hope the MCofS politely refuses the offer, on the gounds of balancing access/ conservation/ environmental impact. Note that the SNH are busy making access to the Southern Cairngorms harder (by returning land rover tracks back to nature).

Derek Stuart
I think it would be great to see Derry Lodge used again and the opportunity to save on the walk-ins to the central Cairngorms would be very welcome on a weekend trip. The walk from Linn of Dee is an attraction, as it adds to the away-from-it-all feeling. The big problem would be security, as it is in a very popular location and we would have to protect the place from abuse.

The Lowne Ranger
There are more than enough bothies and other shelters scattered through the hills. The majority who visit them do not do so for the main purpose of their being. All to often, I have pitched up at a bothie to find it had been/or in the process of being used as a toilet. Recall the White Lady, the shit and pish literally running oot thi door, stuffed with all sorts of litter. What happened to it? It was demolished. With a few exceptions demolish the rest.

This response on behalf of the club Edinburgh JMCS:
In summary our views are Derry Lodge - FOR, Lochnagar proposal - AGAINST.

This is on the basis that Aberdeen University Athletic Association already leases the bothy at Allt-na-Guibhsaich in Glen Muick (100m or so from the site of the proposed new hut). At present it is only available to Aberdeen University students and staff. I am not aware of the history of how use of this hut came to be restricted. It seems to be related to security concerns. Given the willingness of the estate to offer the new hut it may be that the issue of wider usage of Allt-na-G could be reopened.

On Derry Lodge we agree with the broad community consensus for use of the building as a mountain lodge/hut run on similar lines to an Alpine hut. Derry Lodge is a building with architectural significance and if it is not used it will continue to deteriorate and eventually fall down.

We recognised that these is other accommodation available in the area (Muir of Inverey, Inverey Youth Hostel) and this could have a detrimental effect on them. On balance however EH JMCS thought this was a project worth pursuing. Is it possible for the NTS to run it along the same lines as their other 'Base Camp' accommodation? I am copying this response to NTS for information.

Wendy Morgan:
I would like to express my support of the new mountain huts in Lochnagar and Derry Lodge. I enjoy staying in bothies and am thankful they are there on winter nights or when a storm rolls in.

The comment that huts would be of limited interest to hillwalkers because they will visit a mountain hut only once is ridiculous. I personally visit areas I like many times. Very few walkers will never return because they have already ticked off the nearby hills. That's just not the way hill folk think.

Andy Heald:
I would like to provide one piece of feedback in relation to the possible huts in Glen Muick and at Derry Lodge. First, to allow you to put me in context: I like to think of myself as a climber but since I've done all the Munros and a lot of other hills I guess I must be a walker too!

Allt-na-giubhsaich
From the description of 'a long walk' I thought this must be referring to Glas-allt-Shiel but Allt-na-giubhsaich is no more than 20 mins on a very easy track. I book the Ling Hut regularly on behalf of Lomond MC and almost without exception I get positive feedback about the walk, i.e. that people actually prefer to be away from the road. How popular is the CIC?

Allt-na-g is a year-round venue for climbers with two first class cliffs in Lochnagar (primarily winter) and Creag an Dubh Loch (primarily summer). Both of these take about an hours motoring from Braemar, plus 20 mins walking that would be needed to get as far as the hut. The hut would be a great boon to an early start on these big cliffs. Further, as I know from my Meets Sec job, there is a general shortage of hut/bunkhouse accommodation in the winter season.

Tailoring huts to the needs of walkers is always difficult as people 'walk an area out' much more quickly than they 'climb an area out'. On that principle one should only have huts at major road junctions like Spean Bridge or Newtonmore! People who have made mountaineering their life have to be prepared to repeat things.

In case of doubt, this was a 'yes' vote.

Derry Lodge
It would be good to save the building from further deterioration but this does not seem as desirable as the Glen Muick option, primarily because it suffers much more from all the objections than Allt-na-g (long walk. primarily a walking venue & what do they do when they have bagged the many good hills?). What about restoring this as a bothy instead of rebuilding Bob Scott's? It would need a toilet to avoid damage to the superb surroundings.

In case of doubt, this was a 'maybe' vote. I would have stayed there last year on the way to Creagh an Coire Etchacan and I think I could 'sell' an occasional meet there to my club. But I don't know if either would take place every year.

Huntly Hillwalking Club:
We do not support the proposal to convert the Allt-na-giubhsaich stable near Lochnagar into mountaineering hut style accommodation.

The stable is not accessible by public transport and it is not possible to drive to it. We also agree with comments already made on the MCofS web site regarding potential security issues and close proximity to existing mountaineering accommodation.

From a refurbishment point of view it doesn't seem sensible or an appropriate use of money to convert the stable when Aberdeen University's (AU) hut is next door.

AU (and arguably Balmoral Estate) are funded principally by public money, therefore access shouldn't really be restricted on the use of their hut. In comparison, Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen provide full public access to their sporting facilities.

Second guessing this, it seems obvious that, when the agreement was made (years ago, I don't know exactly when), between Balmoral Estate and AU, the climate/environment at the time made it necessary to restrict who was staying on the Estate. Balmoral Estate are encouraging visitors to come and use the facilities, therefore the arguments made at the time (years ago), to make it "AU only", don't exist anymore.

HHWC agree that the suggestion for Derry Lodge to be reinstated as mountaineering accommodation is a good one and suggests MCofS should give every encouragement to this initiative.

Jim Wallace:
Definite yes to both huts, lets take this chance to move out of the dark ages. You only have to look at the positive interest the rebuilding of Bob Scott's bothy has had to see there will be plenty of people keen to use these huts.

Ian Johnston:
Just a few comments on the proposed leasing of Allt-na-giubhsaich stable as a hut. This is an opportunity which shouldn’t be missed. I read the “For” and “Against” comments in Scottish Mountaineer carefully, and can’t see any “against” arguments which really hold water.

Existing Accommodation: As pointed out, the only option for most is Glas-Allt-Shiel, which already gets pretty heavy usage. Ballater isn’t exactly over-endowed with budget accommodation, and the nearest SYHA hostel is at Braemar, Independent hostel at either Braemar or Corgarff – hardly handy.

Accessibility by vehicle: A whole 1km walk-in on a perfectly level track? If that’s a bar for someone then fine, they won’t use the hut, or presumably get out on the hill at all (perhaps that comment was by a sport-climber? (joke)). I think that the no vehicle issue would need to be stressed to avoid folk sneaking one up to drop kit though. Also, whilst the Spittal car park is £2 for a visit rather than a day, a simple method of identifying vehicles of those using the hut might be of use. Perhaps something like a coloured square of paper on the dashboard along with the ticket rather than a note saying the owner is away for three days might work?

Location: Couldn’t be better really. Very central for a variety of hills and crags. There are some great MTB routes, and superb ski-touring both high and low. Enough said. One point is that the hut is in a very good location for through-routing (e.g. Deeside to Angus, links from Glen Callater and over the Mounth roads). I’d like to see a booking system which encouraged use by individuals as well as by groups. The Alex Mac is actually quite difficult for a solo user to book these days (which of course means it’s successful!).

Interest: See the points above. The area has so much to offer. OK, so I might be biased as I live about 30 miles away, but if it goes ahead I’d still use the hut.

As regards Derry lodge: I’ve long had a bee in my bonnet about the lodge, and NTS allowing it to (further) deteriorate whilst installing palatial accommodation at Mar Lodge. The building should indeed be restored and used for accommodation, but in perhaps a different way than as a hut. It’s a big building, and I believe would make a fantastic independent hostel. Notwithstanding the welcome re-instatement of Bob Scott’s, there’s lots of pressure from folk wild camping around the Lodge – with the same few areas taking a real hammering. Yes, there’s an (excellent) independent hostel at Braemar, and a very busy SYHA hostel, but just look at the location. (The hostel at Muir of Inverey hardly counts as it’s only open a few months of each year.)

An independent hostel, charging at competitive rates, with some effective facilities, would be a really positive development. Accessible by bike or foot, it would be unique, and in a location which is hard to better for so many ploys. It would also, I believe, reduce pressure on the honey-pot campsites and perhaps too on Corrour bothy.

I don’t think that Derry Lodge could be run on the same “club only” basis as other huts, but I’m convinced that it could be made a viable business concern as well as being an environmental example. I don’t know whether it’s the NTS proposing the restoration, but they could be onto a winner. The path restoration/deer reductions on the estate are already beginning to redeem their reputation as estate managers (as against stately-home managers) – this would do a bit more.

Ken Thomson, Secretary, for The Cairngorm Club
The Cairngorm Club would support use of the currently unused stable block at Allt-na-Guibhsaich as a MCofS-run mountaineering hut (and not simply an open bothy, as at Glas Allt Shiel), if (and only if) a financially self-sustaining case can be made out. Although users of the Club's hut at Muir of Inverey often drive round to Glen Muick to climb on Lochnagar, we would not regard an Allt-na-Guibhsaich hut as a direct competitor, since the latter would give good access to different hills and cliffs, and would probably serve a different clientele.

Similarly, the Club supports (and has said so in its recent response to the 5-year NTS Mar Lodge Estate review consultation) re-use of Derry Lodge for conservation-compatible outdoor use, including a mountain rescue base and toilet facilities for nearby camping. This would allow demolition of at least some of the wooden huts next to the Lodge (one the current MR base), and address a local hygiene problem.

One possibility is a 'deal' by which the current SYHA hostel at Inverey (next to the Club's hut at Muir) would be sold, and the (substantial?) proceeds used to fund re-development of part of Derry Lodge as a youth hostel; naturally, this would require cooperation between the NTS and SYHA (neither of whom have been consulted as regards this suggestion). A YH at Derry would be well placed in relation to the one at Braemar, and to higher hills.

Neil Findlay:
I think anyone who thinks that returning Derry Lodge to its former glory is a good idea should go and have a look at the building and take a surveyor with you. As Niall Ewen stated this would be a million pound plus project.the friends of Bob Scotts spent approx 15 thousand building their bothy, and that is a small wooden structure.

Sandy Simpson:
I think that the idea of doing up Derry Lodge to be run along the lines of an Alpine Hut or a Youth Hostel is a bit unrealistic as the cost would be tremendous and would require a lottery win or some very rich person with lots of free cash. Access would be the other problem as peoples opinions will differ about walking in or using a vehicle. Any money that was there would be better spent on improving what is there alredy instead of starting something else that will possibly not benefit people as much as improving what is in the area just now, Also the accommodation available at Bob Scott's is first class so why not stay there.

Jim Gray:
Having somewhere to stay in a controlled way using a building that is redundant in its present state , can only be using common sense however! at what cost and in this day of sueing if some one gets hurt (even though the risk is well known to be at your own peril !) who has responsibility for this and where does the buck stop. If I use some where, I try to use it as if it is my own home , some one abusing this trust and damaging suff and leaving your crap in the hope that the (invisible) binmen will deal with it is unacceptable !

This is a a great idea, magic if it is treated with respect and acceptance of basic wilderness values.

Bryan Rynne:
Unless I have missed a relevant link on the web page, there seems to be some fundamental information missing from the MCofS proposal on the hut at Lochnagar. Viz.:
1. how much will it cost?
2. who will pay for it?

Most people, at least when they are spending their own money, weigh up the benefits of a proposed purchase against the cost before deciding to buy. In the case of the proposed hut, MCofS seem to want us to "buy", or at least vote for, the new hut before telling us the price. It might be that the people who are so enthusiastic about it will still be so when they know what it will cost. On the other hand they might not, and they might feel that there are better uses of scarce resources.

Personally, I find it slightly bizarre that MCofS should be proposing this when they are constantly telling everyone how short of money they are (in this regard it may be worth noting that club subscriptions to MCofS have gone up 92% in the last 5 years; I don't have the figures for individual subscriptions to hand). Of course, they may have access to some source of outside funding, but this still does not answer the question of whether this is a sensible use of the money. However, at least if we knew this we would be better able to come to an informed opinion on the matter.

Again, personally, I would prefer MCofS to act as a representative body for walkers, climbers etc., particularly with regard to making representations to government, and that is what I am prepared to pay for. I do not feel that their role is to act as a property manager.

Kevin Burns:
I am very much in favour of a hut at Glen Muick it would make climbing on Lochnagar, much more appealing in winter and summer. It is an approximately 5K walk with no driving at the end. I have no objection to mammoth days, but I also like easy ones, the argument about there being plenty of accommodation within the area is not strictly applicable. I frequently use, Mill cottage at a base for climbing but would not use a bed-and-breakfast. And if you have a weekend away, have to be at work on Monday a bothy not always the most ideal place, though I also use them at time. The short walk-in is no real obstacle. I would book this hut on my days off.

Hugh Campbell:
My response concerns Derry Lodge.

I often walk out to this location from the Linn-o-Dee car park and every time I despair at the sight of it. What a waste it is in its current condition. It is such a beautiful building and location, it deserves to be in use.

Some organisation should refurbish the building, put in toilet facilities, make at least some of the rooms available as bunking facilities, or similar accommodation, put on some basic catering and make the place a welcoming stop for walkers and climbers.

Derry Lodge and that general area, is a very popular destination for some walkers, an overnight and daytime staging point for many more active climbers, and I am sure fairly basic café facilities would be very popular too. I for one would often appreciate a bacon roll, stovies, soup and coffee etc, if such were available there.

Derry Lodge is popular with walkers who cycle in. They leave their bikes there. Others leave their main packs there and continue on with 'Day Packs' instead. Surely the operator of the building could provide secure storage of these items for a small charge - another small source of income. Most cyclists/walkers/climbers would happily tolerate a £1 charge for this?

Surely the Scottish Youth Hostels Association (or a similar organisation) could make this building successful in such a role? I am sure there is sufficient market demand for such a facility at this very popular location. I don't subscribe to the view that such a facility would attract additional/unwelcome visitors - most people who go there already know about it. The majority of neds cannot be bothered with a 3 mile walk to hellraise. (The facilities I am proposing would require the place to be manned anyway, so a level of supervision should be possible).

Perhaps a fairly thorough survey of all passing walkers and climbers over a 1, 2, or 3 month period (or perhaps a full year?) would enable the level of demand to be judged properly? (Put me down as a potential user of all the proposed services I mention).

Perhaps a 'joint' operation might be suitable at Derry Lodge? There are numerous Outdoor Pursuit companies who might be willing to include use of the place as part of their packages, e.g overnight stays, storage/hire of equipment, use of catering facilities. Larger companies might even like to consider making Derry Lodge their actual base? It could be something along the lines of Glenmore Lodge near Aviemore, perhaps without all the vehicles though.

I certainly feel Derry Lodge could quite successfully be converted to provide a combination of B&B, Bunking and café type facilities, and run quite profitably as such. Such an operation does not need to be an 'environmental disaster' which some people seem to be afraid would be the case. All it needs is careful management.

Surely Derry Lodge can be brought back into active use with at least one or two of the above uses? I would be more than happy to see this happen.

Ken Pickering:
Which hills do Huntly "Hillwalking" Club walk on, where all the bothies have a bus service and car park? As an "oldie" I find that after a day on Lochnagar the walk-out from G-a-S can be a bit like the last straw! As a long-term backpacker I can still appreciate the extra comfort of a bothy and a 10-20 minute walk-in is neither here nor there!

Alistair Beeley:
I agree with others that there is a need for a locked mountain hut in the area, providing a bit more comfort than a bothy and which larger groups can book so I think it is an excellent idea provided vehicular access is not permitted. It's not much of a walk from the Spital afterall.

Robert Craig:
Upper Glen Derry and Glen Lui are one of my favourite areas, and are dear to my heart. One of the things which makes them attractive is their remoteness. Equally, the southern side of the Cairngorms is attractive because of its remoteness. There's plenty of accessable mountain areas in Scotland - we need to keep remote those which are remote.

Any reinstatement of Derry Lodge - beautiful though it is - takes away from this remoteness.

Derry lodge should be removed - along with the tatty adjacent huts. I'm aware that at lease one of these huts is associated with mountain rescue: but I'd rather not have huts and not be rescued than the other way round.

A short term inprovement would be to demolish the huts and use Derry lodge for whatever function the huts serve.

Iain Hamilton:
I am not a member and I don't know if you will consider my comments at all. Somebody by the name of Robert Mac or Mc Murray opposes the Derry proposal on the basis that the area is already over used and abused. When was he last there. I returned today, 10th April 2006, having spent two nights rough camping in this "over used and abused" widerness less than half a mile from The Lodge. It was below zero and with frequent snow flurries. We (my 15 year old son and his 14 year old pal) had cycled with all our gear the mere four miles from Linn of Dee car park. We couldn't get moving for the hoards of yobbos abusing the wilderness, not. In the words of Buzz Aldrin "Magnificent desolation". It was a fantastic two days (we've been before but not in such extreme conditions). Not a soul was seen on Monday when we left,other that some well behaved people taking in the fantastic scenery that belongs to us all. Where were all you MC people? Fairweather "wilderness" appreciation society. I am sorry but Mac whatever his name is has really incensed me. Mar lodge belongs to the National Trust and where do you lot get off on implying you've got some god given right to decide who can and cannot walk this wilderness. Mac's comments are nothing to do with making the area more accessible by doing something with The Lodge but everything to do with mountain snobbery. The Lodge is a superb pink granite building in "The old Scotch style" and should be preserved and not knocked down. It hasn't deteriorated in years but what do I know? Maybe someone is maintaining the roof. As we cycled past my only two thoughts were What a waste of a great building and If I had the money. I have no suggestions other than it must be preserved and used for the benefit of ALL who enjoy the wilderness. There has to be a Getty or Carnegie out there willing to set up a trust for the use and preservation of this "Hut". It's bigger than my house.

Dave:
before posting re Derry Lodge it might be worth reflecting on the comments by Neil Finday re the costs involved. It's wind and water tight now and not going anywhere. Its barmy to think of Derry Lodge as a tea room or a hostel, do the maths or find a seriously rich benefactor!

Robert McMurray:Iain, you should really learn to read properly. My name is clearly 'McMurray' not Mac- anything as 'Robert McMurray' and nothing else. was the name used in my earlier post.

If you had taken the time to read my post properly without hurling insults you may have appreciated the point I was trying to make. Firstly, if I can start with your apparent contradictions, you state that you enjoyed the experience of spending time in such a 'wilderness area', so why spoil it by creating a hut and 'making the area more accessible' when, as you say, you only have to cycle the 'mere four miles from the Linn of Dee car park ?'. Clearly, you haven't been there on a teeming weekend in spring or summer when the term 'wilderness' doesn't become quite as apt. 'Magnificent Desolation' - perhaps not for much longer?

You are correct in that I (or nobody) has the right to decide who can or cannot walk this wilderness. Do I (or others) really say this? The mountains are open to all, but those wilder areas should surely be the preserve of those who make that extra effort to visit them. I would refer you to Robert Craig's excellent words above or are you one of these people to whom the term 'wilderness' implies relative comfort and close proximity to others?

Whilst I am impressed to see that you can make it into the wilderness in such 'extreme' conditions of 'snow flurries' (you omit to mention whether you did anything other than cycle in and camp!?) I can assure you that I have been to these parts many times over the years and in addition to visiting all summits two or three times (in all seasons), have climbed in some of the more remote corries in the depths of winter also.

As I said in my original post as echoed by Neil Findlay's sentiments, 'It's a real shame to see a building like that go into disrepair but we live in different times and the cost implication has to be the deciding factor'. Seriously, who do you think will pay to see this happen? We already have Bob Scott's (and tents) so why do we require anything else?

There are literally hundreds of decaying and ruinous buildings littering our hills, do you propose that because they were once 'grand buildings' that they are all to be re-built? Perhaps the final point to finish with is to ask yourself the question; would the lodge be built or would you want it to be built from scratch nowadays?

Chris Gilmour:
I'm an ex-pat Scot, living in South Africa. In June 06, my wife and I pretty much walked the Lairig Ghru, firstly from the Linn of Dee side up to the start of the pass near the Devil's Point and the following day from Coylumbridge up to the Pools of Dee and back again. Being logistically challenged, we decided to do it this way, rather than attempt to do it in one day.

Although I'd skied in the Cairngorms, Glen Shee, Glencoe and the Lecht, I hadn't done much hill-walling before. These two magnificent days will stay in our minds forever. The peace, solitude, desolation were utterly breathtaking and I'd love to do it again.

But when we came to Derry Lodge, we couldn't but help feeling sad that such an outstanding building is lying empty. I've done numerous searches on its history and have read with interest the views contained in this website.

During our first day-from Linn of Dee, we saw a number of hill-walkers coming from Glen Luibeg, collecting their mountain bikes at Derry Lodge and heading back off the excellent path to Linn of Dee, I guess making the 3 to 4 mile journey in about 15 minutes. Our walk from Derry Lodge took us about an hour and 15 minutes. We were very jealous.

It would be really great to be able to cycle to Derry Lodge, stay in that stunning building overnight and then head off into the hills next day-using it as a base. The wooden bothy is fine I'm sure but it looks very much like it's only used by the hillwalking/mountaineering cognoscenti.

What is it about Scotland and its people that we can't expand our minds and take this piece of Scottish heritage, renovate it and put it to good use for everyone. In other words, privatise it, DON'T lay on electricity but put in septic tanks and charge realistic rates for people to stay there. It doesn't have to be as palatial as its sibling up the drag but provided the structure is intact-as it appears to be-then why not make good use of it?

Lest we forget, the Scottish wilderness is owned by all Scottish people, not just the hillwalking and mountaineering fraternity. By encouraging greater numbers of sensible people to come to the wilderness areas and educating them properly, the Ned mentality will be discouraged and bothies etc will be used, not abused.

Many thanks for allowing me to write in this site.

Gordon Henderson:
The Loch Muick area is already under huge pressure - the expanded, and often cevidence of that.

There are already a number of bothies/howffs and refuges in the area: another is MOST DEFINATELY not required!

Bruce Lumsden:
I would be in favour of Derry Lodge opening its doors to outdoor enthusiasts and agree entirely with the comments made by the Cairngorm Club. Seems like this may be an opportunity to save an important building, whilst clearing up its local surroundings and improving sanitary problems. You can't cut the number of people walking through or staying the night near Derry Lodge so maybe it's time to pro-actively improve the area and facilities to make sure it survives for us all.

For Lochnagar bothy, given the size of the mountain area and the proximity of the spittal car park to all of the mountains, I don't feel that another bothy is required.

It has now been decided not to proceed with the new hut project.

Pitch-In